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Default At least 27 dead after Connecticut school shooting, 18 children - 12-14-2012, 01:37 PM

Breaking News: At least 27 people have died in Connecticut at an elementary school. A reported 18 are kids. The principal and psychologist for the school are reported dead as well. When this is confirmed, it will be the second largest mass murder in the U.S. after the Virginia Tech shootings killed 32.

Yet another example of guns killing - not protecting. Gun laws need to be 10 times more strict than they currently are in the U.S, because it is not safe. It is rumoured that the gunman was a 20 year old father of a child enrolled in the school, and used a .223 calibre rifle as well as two handguns found at the scene. He is also dead.

I was going to merge this with the Colorado shooting, but thought this tragic event should have it's own thread.

This news truly breaks my heart for many reasons. The children whose lives were cut short, the families of both the children and adult victims, and for the rest of the school for witnessing this horrible event. This will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

Student's father suspected in shooting at elementary school - The Globe and Mail

Also read this article:

America's solution to gun violence is more guns - The Globe and Mail

Last edited by TheHayleyDoll : 12-14-2012 at 01:41 PM.
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Default 12-14-2012, 02:00 PM

It absolutely sickens me to live in this country when people do insane, sub-human things like this. I get why some people may need guns to protect their homes, but this is ridiculous. This is why it needs to be more difficult to obtain them, just as it is difficult to attain cars and the privilege to drive (yes, it is a privilege, not a right). It boggles my mind that this c.rap keeps happening. There is something seriously wrong with how we haven't done anything about it yet, and now it's happening to young children.



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Default 12-14-2012, 02:19 PM

Guns are really easy to get in this country, legally or illegally.

My thought and prayers go out to the victims and families of this horrible tragedy.

That's really all I can say, cause I don't feel like getting into a debate over this.


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Default 12-14-2012, 02:35 PM

Guns are easy to get illegally because of legally bought weaponry. The guns can easily get passed around. However, I believe that most guns used in cases like this are legally obtained.

I believe these situations are meant to cause debate. If gun laws became stricter after this, the children and adults would not have died in vain. The terrible tragedy that happened today could be used to save lives tomorrow. That should be the goal. The second link I gave in the original post shows that many Americans believe that when gun violence occurs, that they then need to go out and buy guns for protection. That is not the answer. I could link more proof to back my claims, but the gist would be that The United States has the highest gun death rate of any developed nation, because most developed nations have made guns quite difficult to obtain. Some say that due to illegal guns, nothing would change, but if you look at the statistics, it very likely WOULD cause a change. Many child/teen shooters take guns from their household. Guns can be stolen. Easily. Guns are not for protection, they are murder weapons and need to be kept ONLY in the hands of those who are qualified to use them - the police.

I am VERY thankful that I live in a relatively gun-free country, Canada.
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Default 12-14-2012, 02:42 PM

Personally I don't think gun control is the only thing that should be considered in these situations.


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Default 12-14-2012, 03:39 PM

Maybe not the only thing, but certainly one major thing. There will always be crazy people out there, may as well attempt to keep guns away from them.

What else can be considered? More security for schools/theaters/malls? That will not make people feel safe, and a shooter could easily shoot the security officer. Having multiple security officers at every public place would cost millions in taxpayer money, not to mention: what kinds of countries have security rooming the streets? VERY scary ones. I would not want to get a pat-down and sent through a metal detector just to pick up some milk at the grocery store. That does not sound like a safe, free country. That sounds like prison.

Increasing background checks before handing out guns is gun control.

Maybe test everyone when they hit 18 to see if they are mentally stable? That would be ludicrous. What would you do if they aren't? I'm bipolar, would that be reason to throw me into a mental hospital, or in any other confined area away from the rest of society? Hell no. That sounds like segregation. Not allowing me to have guns? That would make sense, but again, that's a specific gun control issue.

Teach kids self-defense? Unless you're teaching it with guns, no child can defend themselves against guns, and guns in the hands of children? CRAZY TALK.

Harsher penalties for offenders? That won't help. Most of the time these kinds of shooters kill themselves or turn themselves in. They don't care about punishments. Murderers who commit single-person or serial style killings generally don't think they will be caught. They try and hide evidence, flee the country, etc. Stricter punishments won't make even 1% of murderers think twice.

I'm unsure of what else could be done that would have a positive impact on American society than gun control in any shape or form. It doesn't have to be a complete banning, but obviously gun laws in the United States are far too lax.

EDIT: Hopefully edited in time for others to view these links. Rightfully so, this has already sparked a gun control debate all over America:

Quote:
Daniel Stewart ‏@dnstewart67 tweeted, "Any American who would prefer to see this on their TV rather than lose the 2nd amendment have no humanity. Sheer horror."

Filmmaker Michael Moore (@MMFlint), who made a documentary about the Columbine school shooting, "Bowling for Columbine," tweeted,‏ "Too soon to speak out about a gun-crazy nation? No, too late. At least THIRTY-ONE school shootings since Columbine."

VS

SamEwinks (‏@SamEwinks), for instance, wrote, "The only gun reform we need is to allow people the ability to defend themselves, not provide nut jobs with easy targets #nra."

josefsmith2011 (@josefsmith2011) posted, "Guns don't kill people people do! Practice the 2nd amendment—keep your gun loaded with you at all times—the younger you are the better."
^^ Gun control debate erupts on Twitter | The Lookout - Yahoo! News


Quote:
Saying he was “absolutely horrified” by the shooting, Rep. Jerrold Nadler said the shooting makes it clear that gun control policies in America need to be reconsidered.


“Yet another unstable person has gotten access to firearms and committed an unspeakable crime against innocent children. We cannot simply accept this as a routine product of modern American life,” Nadler said. “If now is not the time to have a serious discussion about gun control and the epidemic of gun violence plaguing our society, I don’t know when is. How many more Columbines and Newtowns must we live through?”
^^ Gun Control Debate Reignited After Sandy Hook Elementary School Shooting « CBS New York

Last edited by TheHayleyDoll : 12-14-2012 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Added links
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Default 12-14-2012, 04:17 PM

This type of thing is usually commited by someone that has emotional issues (anger, depression etc) Most of them are not sociopaths. Since these people aren't sociopath most of them have warning signs before they go out and kill a bunch of people.

Since you brought up Columbine: you can't tell me that if those boys' parents had been more involved with them and wondered what they did with all of their time in their garage that they wouldn't have noticed something was wrong.

I'm not saying that it excuses them. But unfortunately in this country people tend to ignore what they don't understand or don't want to see, and emotional/mental problems are one of those things.

And serial killers (usually) are in a completely different category then any other killers.


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Default 12-14-2012, 11:45 PM

Gun control needs to be tighter. Yes, they may argue that guns don't kill people, but the NRA policies allow mentally unstable people to buy guns and then kill people. All the evidence we need to support more gun control is evident in tragedies such as this one and the one in Aurora. I am not sure how I feel on guns being banned completely, but I am totally in support of more gun control.


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Default 12-15-2012, 10:20 AM

^ Exactly. Tighter background checks IS a form of gun control. If the people behind the guns are the dangerous ones, why let them get guns in the first place?

Quote:
Millions of checks are done every year, but just a small fraction, between 1 and 2 percent, turn up a problem. In 2009, the latest data available, only about 150,000, or 1.4 percent, of the 10.8 million applications to purchase firearms through a federal dealer were denied, according to a study published last October by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics. LINK - Badly flawed background check system fails to contain firearms sales | The Center for Public Integrity
This link actually references another mass shooting, Virginia Tech. The shooter had been committed into a psychiatric hospital, but records were not found because the background check system is flawed. He walked into a gun shop and bought a semi-automatic rifle (AK-47) and a pistol.

Of those denials, many people appeal and win back their rights to guns using the Second Amendment as their defense.

Sure, mentally unstable people can use other weapons, but there is nothing else capable of the damage a gun can make. It would be very difficult to commit any mass murder with a knife. Guns are fast, and long range. Knives are not.
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Default 12-16-2012, 09:21 AM

I agree with Hayley. As everyone here knows, I live in England. Here are some compariable stats:

Last year, thirty nine people were killed with guns in the entire United Kingdom.

Every day, one hundred and eighty five people are killed with guns in America.


Some people might say, "Oh, the UK is smaller so that doesn't mean anything," but percentage wise, the rate of gun killings is still smaller in the UK than in the US. In London, for example, gangs of thugs knife or baseball bat each other, rather than use guns.

The biggest and most famous school shooting in the UK is Dunblane. There's also been killings where a nutjob has gone rampant with a gun, ie Derrick Bird or the Hungerford massacre. But compared to the US, where school shootings and mass murder by a lone gunmen seem to take place every few months... that's a big difference, and the stark truth is that the reason why we Brits don't have them so often is cuz we have gun control.

The US Constitution states a right to bear arms, not to own them. Also, the days when every single person needed to own a gun in case of native attack or a bear coming in thru your door are over. There's also, in case people hadn't noticed, a far vaster population in America than in the days when the Constitution was relevant. So I really don't see why every single American needs to own a battery of guns.


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